Creative Chats With Guest Jamie Kallestad (Making Art After Parenthood)
This is a recording from a series for the podcast at the Mosesian Center for the Arts called Creative Chats. Listen to learn more and hear the conversation with Jamie Kallestad, singer/songwriter and Communications and Design Specialist for the Watertown Free Public Library, on the topic of making art after parenthood.
(Click here to listen on streaming apps) (Full transcript below)
—————
Sign up for the Little Local Conversations email newsletter to know when new episodes are out and keep up on everything Little Local Conversations.
Thanks to podcast promotional partner the Watertown Business Coalition, a nonprofit organization focused on connecting local businesses and strengthening our community. Check them out at https://watertownbusinesscoalition.com/.
This program is supported in part by a grant from the Watertown Cultural Council, a local agency which is supported by the Mass Cultural Council, a state agency.
Transcript
Matt: 0:07
Hi there, welcome to the Little Local Conversations podcast. I'm your host, Matt Hanna. Every episode I sit down for a conversation with someone in Watertown to discover the people, places, stories, and ideas of Watertown. This time this is a recording from a live event that I did at the Mosesian Center for the Arts called Creative Chats that I've been doing once a month over there. Each time I have a guest speak about a topic that's related to creativity that's affecting their life right now, that's been on their mind, and then I invite everyone who's there to break out into groups and talk about the topic themselves. We have some coffee and pastries. It's a nice Friday morning I do once a month.
Matt: 0:40
If you're listening to this when this comes out, there's another one coming up this Friday, March 21st, at 8.30 am at the Mosesian Center for the Arts with Kristen Kenny, the chair of the Watertown Cultural District. Should be a good one, so come on out if you'd like to join us. But this recording is from February when I sat down with Jamie Kallestad, who is a singer-songwriter and also the communications and design specialist at the Watertown Free Public Library, and his topic that we talked about for a little bit was kind of the art life after parenthood and dealing with different eras of your art life. So I'll let Roberta over at the Mosesian give her brief intro and then I'll get into my conversation with Jamie.
Roberta: 1:16
Welcome everyone. I'm happy to see everybody here for our this is our second correct? Number two of Creative Chats. And our wonderful host, Matt Hanna, who is with us today and he'll introduce our guests. Many of you have been here before, so I also want to welcome you to the Mosesian Center for the Arts. We are a nonprofit arts center. We don't get any funding from the government or from any tax dollars whatsoever. So we are privately funded by all of you sitting around the room, and that's how we maintain our arts center. And I just want you to know how important all of you are to supporting us. So thank you very much. We have lots of exciting things happening this month that you can check out our website. I won't go through all of them. The range is broad and we'd love you to come back and enjoy some of the things that we offer. And now it's Matt's turn.
Matt: 2:14
So I want to introduce the guests for today's Creative Chat, which, if you haven't been here before, a few new faces, which I think Jamie pulled. This is just an event to kind of talk about creativity in general, very broadly speaking. We'll have a conversation, a little bit about the topic that Jamie came in with and then afterwards I invite you guys to split out into your tables and talk about that topic yourself. It was really good last time when we did that, when Liz was last time and we talked about the delineation between art as lifestyle and art as business, and that was an interesting conversation and that went really well. Yeah, that's pretty much it. I think we'll just dive right into the conversation.
Matt: 2:50
Oh, this is part of a podcast I do called Little Local Conversations, where I interview different people around the town, business folks, artists, nonprofits and such and this is a little offshoot of that, because I am a musician as well and creative type and I like the creative stuff, so I wanted to do this separate event for that. So, Jamie, why don't you come on up? You want to introduce yourself and say a few sentences about who you are?
Jamie: 3:18
Sure, and I'm relieved that I know almost all of you quite well. So thanks for coming to listen. My name is Jamie Kallestad. I am a singer-songwriter. I am also the communications and design specialist at the Watertown Free Public Library and I know a lot of you from both sides of that equation. The music side I've been doing, you know, since I was young, and the design and communication stuff has been more recent and I've been at the library for six years and been in Watertown for seven or eight.
Matt: 3:54
Cool, maybe we'll talk about you know the labels on those things a little bit throughout this conversation. Because, to dive into today's topic, do you want to tell me your topic? Your question, topic, however, you decided to condense it down in your head that we’ll jam on a little bit here.
Jamie: 4:06
Yeah, and Matt surprised me and I came up with this this morning. Let's see, eras of art life colon making art after parenthood, is what I want to talk about.
Matt: 4:22
So this is your eras tour.
Jamie: 4:23
Yes, this is my eras tour,
Matt: 4:27
All right, great, I'm glad we could be the first stop on it. Because I know the ticket's going to be crazy for the rest of it
Jamie: 4:30
Thank you. Thank you for making that tortured title funny.
Matt: 4:36
Yes, but let's talk about why that is a title for you. So obviously there's something to do with parenthood. But why has that been on your mind, related to creativity specifically?
Jamie: 4:47
Yeah, just because everything changed for me and I'm guessing that is and this is really like I'm picking up a lot of ideas that were planted from Liz's talk, which I really enjoyed last time. Yeah, how do you fit in art making, music making, whatever you do around the other obligations in your life? And it was such a light switch change from day to night becoming a parent. Also it was during COVID, which some people can relate to. That was another obviously a huge change for art and especially music. So it's kind of like I had it felt to me I gained this amazing thing which, as a kid, you should all meet, her, she's great.
Jamie: 5:22
And then I also felt like I lost some part of my identity because I did completely stop making music for about two years in the way that I had been doing before. No live shows, which was part of COVID, but also just the capacity to spend time doing what I wanted was totally gone in a way that caused artistic panic. But now ultimately I'm like, oh, that was really good for me.
Matt: 5:48
Yeah, so maybe let's frame it as two ways. So what was your artistic life before that shift? Can you give us a little picture of what that looked like?
Jamie: 5:57
Yeah, I had been playing music and gigging a lot since college, so by then it would have been 10 or 15 years and that was just a huge part of my identity. And it's been really interesting to think about what it means to be an artist and just being like invited to this chat and hearing Liz's talk and like being around other people who call themselves that I'm like, oh, maybe that is what I'm doing. But I think before, a couple of years ago, I would have found that very pretentious. I would have been like I'm a working musician. So that was a switch that I think was part of it. And so I was gigging a lot with a band for a while and then I was gigging a lot on my own, just playing solo and also working part-time.
Jamie: 6:42
Having that come to an end because of a full-time job that I was very excited about but also gave me a lot less time to work on music, that's the library job. COVID, which completely ended the live aspect of things for a while, and then having a kid which took all the rest of the time away. Yeah, that was the AB switch. Going from, yeah, from playing out quite a lot, from recording quite a lot, from songwriting quite a lot, to not at all.
Matt: 7:06
Right. And you were making for a period of time you were making your living doing that right.
Jamie: 7:09
Yeah, and to be totally transparent, for a short period of time. I was telling Matt the other day we were like kind of figuring out what to talk about. I was very thrilled to be fully supporting myself, myself gigging for a year and it was in Minneapolis and rent was low, you know, living sleeping in a van with my friends. But that was a big part of my identity, like I make a living doing this thing. That was always the goal and I did it. And then, like, obligations start building up. Then I had a long-term relationship.
Jamie: 7:35
I started paying rent in Somerville, which is a totally different thing, and yeah. And so then there were part-time jobs, but it was the music side of me is still like really what I'm all about. But like, having a part-time job is cool, working at a coffee shop is cool. I met my wife there. Yeah, but slowly, like watching those things shift, there was a lot of soul searching involved as like it went from being the only thing to being a smaller and smaller thing, which I think really came to a head during COVID and having a kid and be like am I, am I still a musician?
Matt: 8:02
Right. So it wasn't a clear line in the sand then. This was kind of something that was blurring before then. And so then you said for two years you basically didn't do your music stuff. What was that like? Obviously you know you're tired, you have a kid. You can't really reflect too much on it because you got all this stuff going on. But then maybe when you started to re-come back into the music world after that, what was that reintroduction like for you?
Jamie: 8:26
Yeah, so this is the thing I'm really thankful for now in retrospect, as my wife and I started to get into a routine with our kid and like figuring out how to take care of a child. At first it was like just constant. Other parents know it's just like it's the only thing. You're a parent. It's the only thing. And then slowly you figure out routines and like your little parts of your own alone time which I also realized through being a parent is really important to me and that's different for everyone. Oh, I need like a little time just to be by myself in a coffee shop or, you know, sitting with my guitar, lost in my own thoughts, but it's really hard to justify setting that time aside. But little by little it starts to come back and then the big like breakthrough for me was every little piece that you get back is like way more meaningful and there's less time wasting.
Jamie: 9:13
And Liz talked a lot about this. Just because it's like I know I have an hour. I want to get this thing done. I have these ideas that I've been able to think about while I'm doing this, or changing diapers, or whatever. Now all I need is the time to like make it happen, and so there's a little more focused energy. As Liz also said, which I really appreciate, you lose the noodling side. Sorry, stop talking about you. We're all friends here. Yeah, you lose a little bit of the like spinning your wheel like that, and that's an important thing about creativity too. But there is something like one of the shifts that I appreciated is I was spinning my wheels, doing this kind of writing songs in my head, and it's really thrilling to then finally sit with a guitar and be like this is ready to go, I just need the chords and the melody or whatever in it, and to have something then kind of seemingly pop into life so instantaneously, something I didn't have as much before. And now, yeah, it's a new era.
Matt: 10:03
Yeah, so now the noodling is in your head rather than actually on the instruments, which is interesting you were also talking about when we were talking previously, about how it's kind of you're being able to build this practice back kind of in the way that you wanted, right. So, like some of the things, like you're in a different stage now and the touring and living in a van with people and touring around isn't something in this life stage anymore
Jamie: 10:26
No, I'm not allowed to do that I'm pretty sure.
Matt: 10:28
So what are the aspects of building it back together that are important to you? I mean, obviously it sounds like playing the instrument is still important. Writing a song sounds like it's still important. But recording, making an album, playing it in front of people, even if it's not touring, how have you come to decide what's still important from all those choices?
Jamie: 10:46
Yeah, great, it's just so much good perspective on all that because there were never masses. I don't want to paint the wrong picture of former glory. There was a ton of work and a lot of amazing shows and good times. But looking back I'm like, okay, what was actually the value? Yeah, what do I want to bring back from all that? And it did, you're totally right.
Jamie: 11:08
It started with songwriting. There was like a realization like, oh, whatever I'm doing, whether or not I'm playing this for people or not, I think I'm going to still doing this. It's almost like journaling for me and that's valuable. So that was kind of the first thing to come back. And actually recording and messing around with things on my computer are also part of the creative fun for me too. So that came back. And then it was like, well, and I talked to my wife about this a lot, like I really miss playing in front of people, and that was maybe the next thing to try to work that back into my life.
Jamie: 11:43
As I started to do that, like every time I did, I saw it in a new light. I'm like, wow, this is amazing. You see the privilege of it more. I get to do this that people are responding, even if it's just a couple people, and like, especially we can all relate to this after COVID, seeing people gather to listen to art again, you're like, wow, this is important and should keep happening at very small and very big levels. So I think in that order, those things all started coming back, but less of the stress came back because I wasn't relied on it monetarily and that was always very much in question. But I also wasn't, there was less ego reliance on it too, as it came back because there were a lot of other parts of my identity that had flourished in the time I wasn't making music, being a parent being probably the biggest one, yeah and job and other things and yeah.
Matt: 12:29
Yeah, how about, so your identity now, when you introduce yourself to people, do you still say like I'm a musician and I work at the library, or like you know how's the identity piece of it work?
Jamie: 12:35
That this is something I think about a lot. It's not something I lead with. People who know me know I lead with I'm Minnesota and I'm from Jamie, like I want to make sure that everyone knows, like, where I'm from first and foremost, but I actually I probably lead with library more now and I'm very eager to talk about that with people and yeah.
Matt 12:56
Do you feel that that position, since it has some creativity involved with it, has helped alleviate some of that creative practice, frustration or missing hole for you?
Jamie: 13:06
Yeah, and I don't know how this would look if my job was different, because there's so much creativity in my job and I have always had this space where I can go, where I feel like I'm really stuck musically. I will oftentimes be very excited about something that's happening at work, often a creative thing, and like having that flexibility in your creative self to put your energy and, I guess, ego and like, oh, this is really not working out, but this is working, and it kind of shifts back and forth when, like things are not working at work, often the like happy place in my head I go is oh, but I'm like writing this song that I feel really good about. And that's another thing that's changed is like being able to toggle back and forth has probably been healthy, not have all your eggs in one basket.
Matt: 13:45
Yeah, the last thing to kind of dig into here a little bit before we open up for questions for people is, how has the parenthood changed your music?
Jamie: 13:51
That's a good question I would ask the same of you. Because Matt, I learned, is farther along on this journey than I am. I am still trying to figure that out for sure. One thing I have been gravitating towards is more ambiguity, I think lyrically, and I wonder if that's related to being a parent or not. I'm really inspired by a lot of children's books that I read with my daughter, and I have a stack to recommend to just like anyone, whether you have kids or not. That was, I think, an eye-opening experience. Something totally gained from being a parent is like becoming aware of the art of children's books. There are good ones and there are bad ones, and I was really in the dark about that before and Kirsten is laughing at me now, the library's outreach librarian, because she knows way more about this world than I do. But it was such an amazing figuring out of what people are doing in that artistic world was cool, and there's poetry to it. Obviously there's visual art, and some of my recent songs have been ideas and feelings ripped right from children's books.
Matt: 14:52
Yeah, well, I think this is giving us a little nugget to ponder on when we talk ourselves afterwards, but I always like to open up to. When I say always, I mean last time I did and now I could plan to in the future. Open up to anyone who wants to ask Jamie a question related on this topic. Anyone? Roberta. Roberta's always game. I like it.
Roberta: 15:10
Well, first, I really love having you in this space, and this is exactly what this space should be used for is people being able to talk about their art and how to cultivate it and make it real in the world. I actually have two questions for you. One is when you talked about coming out of COVID, there was this, and I've heard this in lots of people's voices there's this kind of longing that what it was like to come back together again, and I'm really curious about what that is in all of us and how did you experience that? If you could just talk a little bit about that, why we feel that pull to come back together after being separated for so long.
Jamie: 15:52
Yeah, wow, very good question. First, I want to say Roberta and Matt, exactly right. Like I am so thankful to be getting together with people to talk about art. In fact, a friend from the library who is probably going to come to a future event of these, so I really hope they keep going in perpetuity, and I were talking about this maybe a year or two ago. She's an artist and was really like I just wish I lived. I'm paraphrasing something to the effect of I wish I lived in a different time or in a different city, where people just got together in cafes and talked about art. And I was like, yeah, that's cool, that's something I've seen in movies and in books and I wish I had that too, and we had that longing together and this was closer to COVID and, oh my God, like you've made it happen.
Jamie: 16:37
And so I really appreciate what both of you are doing at the Mosesian Center, and Matt, with the Conversations podcast and the fact that you're like it shouldn't just be a podcast, it should also be in person, like we should get our bodies into a room together because both are good but they're different. So I'm not answering the question, I'm just saying like yes.
Jamie: 16:55
I feel that. I feel it deep in me and I appreciate so many people in this room and, honestly, when I'm looking at this small group, I'm like whoa, these are like people who are connecting Watertown and bringing people together into spaces to think and reflect and enjoy art and like be human. Yeah, I'm really, I feel really lucky that we're in that kind of community. Yeah, so I didn't really I don't know if I answered the question, but yeah, I just, I just feel it. I feel it.
Roberta: 17:24
Why don't you express that feeling?
Matt: 17:26
Maybe he'll write a song about it someday.
Jamie: 17:28
Yeah, that's probably the closest I could get.
Matt: 17:33
Okay, she'll get you to answer one.
Jamie: 17:33
Yeah, okay.
Roberta: 17:34
The other question is your identifying ambiguity. I think that's the word you used when you talked about how parenthood changed you. I just want to dig a little deeper on that comment. I'll just give you a background. We have three kids. They're all grown up. They all have kids now and I just remember how profoundly changed I was by having children and raising children. It's the most amazing experience of my life, so profoundly changed. So I'm always interested in how people articulate what that is and what that does for you.
Jamie: 18:13
Yeah, this is something that deserves a good couple hours because I guess I'm still working it out and I think only here in this conversation did I venture to make that. I've noticed that I'm more interested in ambiguity and I've also become a parent, so only now am I like kind of connecting them. But it could be the children's book thing, where I'm reading these, my favorite books. They're not pedantic, they're not and there are those, there are plenty of those and prescriptive and they're like this is the way the world is and here's how you should think about it.
Jamie: 18:42
I'm so drawn to these beautiful poetic books that ask questions and leave things open-ended and make connections where there weren't connections before and like I guess I'll just I'll mention the Kirsten Malia Brandon. You all know my favorite children's book, Sato the Rabbit. Just a little Sato shout out. These amazing juxtapositions and like alternate realities that exist in those books have really inspired me. I would guess that it's part that and also just realizing the humbling experience of realizing like you don't have the answers you aren't going to be able to, like help this person figure everything out and there's so much more gray area that was unexamined because, like, kids ask the best questions. Then you're like oh yeah, I haven't you realize, you haven't really thought about that as deeply because you were just posed a question that, like, no adult would think to ask you know. So I think that may be what's pushed me towards more ambiguity and more yeah, it's profound.
Matt: 19:45
And there's not sleeping too. You can't, you can't make a coherent thought.
Jamie: 19:50
Right yeah. And then there's like, yeah, the like psychedelic, delusional side of things, where you're just like I can't think, I can't make coherent thoughts, and so what I have is very hazy to begin with, and you just like roll with that.
Matt: 20:02
Yeah, any other questions. All right.
Speaker 5: 20:07
Um long time Jamie Kallestad fan, first time podcast commenter.
Jamie: 20:12
So my parents, by the way, are going to love this part. Matt was like, oh, like, share this out, and I posted it on my Facebook and both of my parents chimed in, as parents are likely to do on Facebook. Will there be a recording? So shout out
Matt: 20:29
Do you want to shout out his parents?
Speaker 5: 20:31
Yeah, hi Jim, hi June, how are you doing? So I have had the pleasure of seeing you perform live for a long time, like a decade and a half now. So I have seen you play in a bunch of dive bars and play to dive bar audiences. But recently, when I see you play, I mostly see you play to other people with kids and their kids. I just wanted to ask you how does that feel as an artist to have that change in who your audience is? How does that change the way that you think about live music and who it's for? Because it's just a huge change to put those two experiences next to each other. It seems like a big shift in artistic practice.
Jamie: 21:15
Yeah, I love how you're calling it artistic practice. I love how you're making it sound very important. Again, these and I apologize like those are words that I was I'm getting more comfortable with, but at first I've been like whoa, but now I love it. Yeah, I'm an artist. I'm in a cafe talking about art. I'm an artist. So this has been another good learning thing.
Jamie: 21:41
Maybe a couple years ago, as we started going out with our kid and seeing kid performers out there, there was some chatter I won't say from who about how I could very easily fold my very serious artistic practice into a kid's music review and make a lot of money. That's just ideas that were floating in the ether which I wholesale rejected. Like no way will I be a kids performer. I am way too serious and sad for that, so I think. But what's interesting is how I've come around to that and I still don't. I'm not going to write kids songs. I think there are people who do that in much better ways than I ever would. But now when I perform and I've been performing at Revival Cafe a lot in Watertown our peers are not, as it used to be, like 20-somethings going out to see me at a bar and drinking a lot of beer and like making that bar some money, like that equation no longer works for me and my group. But we are showing up at this coffee shop because parents need coffee and all the kids are there. And so now I am I'm a kid performer.
Jamie: 22:39
I didn't realize, but it happened and like kids are having a great time, they're listening to me sing my sad songs. They don't care. Because it's just like a guy playing guitar. Yeah, and that was humbling too and like, oh no, this is actually really good because, like my kid is there with her friends and sometimes they're rapt and sometimes they're just like banging on things with toys and they're rolling around on the floor. But like I of course want my kid and our community of kids we know and some that we don't, to have that experience of growing up and being around this. So if I can be a part of contributing to that, that feels really, that does feel important. Yeah, that feels really good. So I've totally come around to seeing that in a different way.
Speaker 3: 23:23
I would like to know, and maybe everybody else listening, where they can see you perform and, if you do, what new music you have put out since becoming a parent and COVID.
Jamie: 23:33
Yeah.
Speaker 3: 23:34
Yeah, we'd love to hear more about what's out there now from you.
Jamie: 23:38
Just as I wrote it. Thanks, Liz. Yes, what am I doing now? I'm playing every month at Revival Cafe in Watertown and they're catering right now, and so you like their coffee, you like their food, come have it with me on Saturday mornings. (What time?) Great question, it's 10 am once a month, so jamiekallestad.com has the schedule. Yeah, there's a flyer at Revival.
Jamie: 24:02
You'll see this kid thing that I'm talking about. It is quite a thing to see, but it is beautiful and that space is actually really well suited for music. Now there's going to be a string ensemble there or not a string ensemble, a wind ensemble, excuse me. Yeah. And so I think part of all these connections that are being made in Watertown, especially Porchfest, which, thank you so much, like Matt, is one of the primary movers of Watertown Porchfest, we're like seeing who's around and making music, and more live music is starting to happen in Watertown, which is really exciting. But this was, yeah, what new music have I made? And I just released an EP that I'm proud of. I'm working on some new music and it'll all be coming out this year, but the EP you should check out, featuring bass by Watertown's Zachariah Hickman and some of my best long-term friends and collaborators from the sleeping in a van days. Yeah.
Matt: 24:47
All right. Well, thank you, Jamie, for coming up here and sharing your thoughts. I'll release it to everyone else afterwards, okay, thanks. So that's it for my conversation with Jamie. You can find out more about his music at jamiekalestad.com. Go check him out when he's playing at the Revival Cafe.
Matt: 25:05
And again, if you'd like to join in in one of these Creative Chats events, I've been doing them once a month at the Mosesian Center for the Arts on a Friday morning, for the next few months it's going to be the third Friday. Which means the next one coming up, if you listen to this, when this comes out, is Friday March 21st, the guest is Kristen Kenny, who is the chair of the Watertown Cultural District. She's also involved with other things, such as the Watertown Arts Market and Watertown Porchfest, so she's very involved in the arts world in Watertown. So, looking forward to our conversation and it's just a nice mingling with other creative folks, so sounds interesting to you at all. Encourage you to come on out, Friday March 21st, 8.30 am at the Mosesian Center for the Arts. If you want to listen to other episodes, such as my first Creative Chats conversation with Liz Helfer, which Jamie referenced in this talk, you can head on over to littlelocalconversations.com. You can find all the episodes there, including regular interview episodes, and find out any other events that are coming up. You can also sign up for my newsletter that I send out once a week just to keep up to date on everything that is happening that is a little local related. Just had my anniversary event last night at the Mosesian Center for the Arts, which was a great event, and I have a live podcast panel from that that I will be releasing at some point soon too, so you can stay on the newsletter list to see when that's coming out.
Matt: 26:12
All right, and just a couple of things to wrap up here. I want to give a couple of thanks to people. I want to give a shout out to the Watertown Cultural Council, who have given me a grant this year to help support the podcast, so I want to thank them and give them the appropriate credit, which is this program is supported in part by a grant from the Watertown Cultural Council, a local agency, which is supported by the Mass Cultural Council, a state agency. You can find out more about them at watertownculturalcouncil.org and massculturalcouncil.org. I also want to give a shout out to a promotional partner, the Watertown Business Coalition. They're a nonprofit organization here in Watertown that's bringing businesses and people together to help strengthen the community. Find out more about them at watertownbusinesscoalition.com. So that's it. Until next time, take care.
